Comments on: Education Breakdown?

By: Michael

Michael — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:45:09 +0000

I think the most useful stuff I learned I learned in University, we also don’t had any mention of Unit Testing or Solid principle or ORM. But I learned about Boolean logic, algorithms data structures and complexity, underlying theory of operating systems and databases. I know about fundamentals of computing what possible and what not, I learned 3-4 very different languages and principals behind them. I also grasped a basic understanding of mathematics and can read and understand research papers describing advantage solutions to complex problems we all face.

By: Chris Missal

Chris Missal — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:32:32 +0000

Ryan, I applaud next to Scott. Very cool that you’re doing this. It has come across my mind many times. If I were to do it, I’d be teaching next to former teachers as I’m not that far out of the system. I don’t know if that would be a good or bad thing.

I’ve had the discussion with others many times on this very topic. My feelings is to start small. When I was in school we didn’t practice or (not to my memory) even talk about source control. Starting small could be as simple as introducing source control to the students (other institutions likely do, a few years back mine did not). This can be easily accomplished all completely free. If the IT department didn’t want to set up an SVN server, there’s always Assembla, which would probably be even better. Students could work from wherever they wish and commit their code. Instructors/teachers/professors could then grab the version as of the “due date/time” and have their projects turned in.

I realize that hindsight is 20/20 but I really feel this is one way that could be a valuable mechanism for both teaching students how to use source control and allow the teachers to see how the students built up the codebase to the version it was at the time of submittal. They could either see a work in progress, or one single commit. If it were me, one could easily garner a higher grade than the other. To me this beats handing in projects on a floppy/CD/DVD/ZipFile hands down.

I hope you continue blogging about this experience, I for one would be looking forward to it!

By: Dew Drop - January 7, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew

Dew Drop - January 7, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:14:05 +0000

[...] Education Breakdown? (Ryan Kelley) [...]

By: Scott Schimanski

Scott Schimanski — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:06:06 +0000

Ryan:

I applaud you for taking the time to teach others. I have taught a few university courses and know the work and time commitment involved. However, it is very rewarding. Thanks for making a difference.

I have thought about this as well. At a small level we can teach good coding and design practices during a C# class, a compilers class or SAD. However, if you take time to teach some of the larger concepts you are discussing, something else has to come out of the curriculum. Maybe its time to re-define what a Software Engineer really needs to be successful in the real world and how to get them the education.

Scott

By: Steve Py

Steve Py — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:59:28 +0000

Going into school I had actually planned to make a go at game development so I already accepted that what I learned in school wasn’t going to be much more than a toe-hold on the mountain of skills I’d need to learn to be a good developer. Still I was presented with a 4 year course at Uni for $8000/year plus books, or a 2 year computer engineering course at an accredited technical college for $4000/year including most books. Uni would mean it’d be an extra 2 years before I actually started anything meaninful, and would mean a loan. With college, I had enough money put away plus a bit I promised to reward myself with a new car if I graduated with honors and found work.

At college I learned about electronics, PLCs, CAD, and software development with Assember, Pascal, & C/C . Handy, because as it turned out I decided game development probably wasn’t going to be more frustrating than I first imagined. (Based on the degrading quality of games I played through college:)

Still the best thing about college is that as far as learning technical skills it was almost entirely hands-on. It wasn’t “read this approved material, listen to me lecture, and then write a thesis.” We were building hardware, writing software, and truly using our brains and asking realistic questions. Some of the instructors were pretty ordinary, but a few really stood out. My favorite was in C/C . This was before TDD/Agile became the buzz but whenever we did an assignment and he was reviewing it, the first question he ask was “how do you know it works?” You had to have test cases/scenarios before he graded it.

Oh yeah, and I did earn that car.

By: Ryan Kelley

Ryan Kelley — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:21:39 +0000

Matthew,

I do not disagree with the statements you make either. I too believe that the number one outcome of a college education should be that you know how to learn and how to go about solving problems. College is not a vocational school and cannot be in large part due to how hard it is to make curriculum changes, especially at an accredited school.

I think you have some great ideas with the co-op or internship opportunities as well, I forgot about those. We have done that in the past and it has typically been a win-win for everyone.

By: Matthew Botos

Matthew Botos — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:58:46 +0000

I’ll play devils’ advocate and throw two ideas into the mix:
Computer Science != Software Engineering
College != Vocational School

While I don’t totally agree with those assertions (I have two engineering degrees because I considered it a practical education), I can see the logic of those on the other side of this education breakdown. Many believe that college teaches you to think and generically solve problems, not to master specific technologies or even methodologies.

That said, modern design and testing methods are part of the software world and do deserve attention, either in class, through on the job training, or via self-study.

I think Ryan’s efforts to expose students and professors to real-world software practices is a great way to get people started. From my own experience, I’d also encourage students and companies to take advantage of co-op or internship opportunities where students can begin to meld their theoretical knowledge with hands-on experience.