Comments on: RIA The Death of Server Page Development http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ria-the-death-of-server-page-development Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:54:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.5 By: Scott Nichols http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/comment-page-1/#comment-45566 Scott Nichols Wed, 22 Apr 2009 04:30:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/#comment-45566 I have some bad news and some good news regarding what I can share. The bad news is that I cannot openly share source from my companies apps. The good news is that I have abstracted out one of our systems which my company has no interest in maintaining intellectual property on. I plan to open source this code base on CodePlex. This system is called “Enterprise Services” and takes advantage of all the tools and design strategies I mentioned in the original Blog post. Once I have posted this source I will update the Blog post with the information on where to find it. I have some bad news and some good news regarding what I can share. The bad news is that I cannot openly share source from my companies apps. The good news is that I have abstracted out one of our systems which my company has no interest in maintaining intellectual property on. I plan to open source this code base on CodePlex. This system is called “Enterprise Services” and takes advantage of all the tools and design strategies I mentioned in the original Blog post.

Once I have posted this source I will update the Blog post with the information on where to find it.

]]> By: Rad http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/comment-page-1/#comment-45561 Rad Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:14:48 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/#comment-45561 I also want to build Silverlight and WPF apps using Composite WPF and Silverlight Guidance and CSLA framework. I was wondering if you could share a sample application and your templates to build SOA messaging layer. If you can share anything please send it my email address. Thanks. I also want to build Silverlight and WPF apps using Composite WPF and Silverlight Guidance and CSLA framework. I was wondering if you could share a sample application and your templates to build SOA messaging layer.
If you can share anything please send it my email address.
Thanks.

]]> By: Scott Nichols http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/comment-page-1/#comment-44946 Scott Nichols Fri, 27 Mar 2009 01:06:44 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/#comment-44946 Actually Chris old buddy, I will be about 5 steps behind you in the beer line. Using WCF and some custom templates in my code generator I can design and build the service proxy layer over my existing DAL objects quite easily and quickly. I do not use the crappy wizard in Visual Studio to build my WCF services. That is the worst thing anyone could do. I’ll need to blog on that one day. Granted my technique is not point and click as some of the solutions I know you work with but in under 2 days we build a fully functional SOA messaging layer which exposed all our DAL methods in SOAP, .Net Remoting, and JSON. I just love WCF!!! Not sure what you mean host the Silverlight apps on? Our Web & Apps servers are Win2003 host. PC and MACs running IE or Firefox run Silverlight just fine. Unless you are referring to web hosting companies. That is true, there are not a lot of hosting providers today that host FLEX or Silverlight. Although as a former partner in a web hosting company it will not take long for them to retool. If there is a buck to be made there will be providers fighting for the business, very competitive industry. Actually Chris old buddy, I will be about 5 steps behind you in the beer line. Using WCF and some custom templates in my code generator I can design and build the service proxy layer over my existing DAL objects quite easily and quickly. I do not use the crappy wizard in Visual Studio to build my WCF services. That is the worst thing anyone could do. I’ll need to blog on that one day. Granted my technique is not point and click as some of the solutions I know you work with but in under 2 days we build a fully functional SOA messaging layer which exposed all our DAL methods in SOAP, .Net Remoting, and JSON. I just love WCF!!!

Not sure what you mean host the Silverlight apps on? Our Web & Apps servers are Win2003 host. PC and MACs running IE or Firefox run Silverlight just fine.

Unless you are referring to web hosting companies. That is true, there are not a lot of hosting providers today that host FLEX or Silverlight. Although as a former partner in a web hosting company it will not take long for them to retool. If there is a buck to be made there will be providers fighting for the business, very competitive industry.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/comment-page-1/#comment-44930 Chris Brandsma Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:36:52 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/#comment-44930 Let me know when you are done crafting your web service layer. I'll be out back having a beer. Oh, and what, exactly, are you going to host this Silverlight application on? Interesting. Let me know when you are done crafting your web service layer.
I’ll be out back having a beer.

Oh, and what, exactly, are you going to host this Silverlight application on?
Interesting.

]]> By: Tony Rasa http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/comment-page-1/#comment-44929 Tony Rasa Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:57:52 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/#comment-44929 The Moonlight project http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight has gotten a lot of support from Microsoft to create a viable "silverlight for linux" platform. Microsoft has supplied things like codec libraries and unit tests to the moonlight team so that they'll be able to handle the content types and so that moonlight will be as compatible with silverlight as they can possibly make it. yes, moonlight still lagging behind silverlight, but at least as of now the silverlight is taking this issue very seriously. The Moonlight project http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight has gotten a lot of support from Microsoft to create a viable “silverlight for linux” platform. Microsoft has supplied things like codec libraries and unit tests to the moonlight team so that they’ll be able to handle the content types and so that moonlight will be as compatible with silverlight as they can possibly make it.

yes, moonlight still lagging behind silverlight, but at least as of now the silverlight is taking this issue very seriously.

]]> By: Scott Nichols http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/comment-page-1/#comment-44926 Scott Nichols Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:20:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/#comment-44926 Glad to see my title pulled in some hits and got a few responses. You guys are correct and I do not necessarily disagree. Server Page development (ASP.Net JSP, PHP, etc.) will be around for years to come. I guess the main point I have is that I think RIA platforms will pull more people out of the Server Page development arena than the Thick client space. In addition, my perspective is coming from a LOB development shop as noted at the end of the post. The dynamics are a bit different there i.e. you control your environment for the most part. The open free market of the web is a slightly different animal as we are all aware. I would like to comment on the old Linux argument. I did some consulting (help build an ASP.Net site) for a marketing firm a couple of years back. They spent some money on their clients behalf to try and find some accurate numbers for what percentage of the market does each major browser platform vendor hold. They liked MACs and were more concerned with those numbers. The end result was that ALL the combined Linux/Unix distributions combined had less than 2% market penetration. And of the Linux crowd a large majority of them have access to a PC or MAC. The end result for the client who was having us build an e-commerce site to sell their products was to only concentrate on PC and MAC browser compatibility issues. I do not want to start a holy war about the Linux/Unix browser story but from my experience customers who are looking for the next greatest thing to make them stand out amongst their competition really do not care a whole lot about the Linux compatibility issues. Especially when they see major fortune 500 companies totality revamping their sites with RIA products i.e. FLEX and Silverlight. Oh, and Both FLEX and Silverlight have stories to address the Linux crowd, granted they are a version or so behind. Glad to see my title pulled in some hits and got a few responses. You guys are correct and I do not necessarily disagree. Server Page development (ASP.Net JSP, PHP, etc.) will be around for years to come. I guess the main point I have is that I think RIA platforms will pull more people out of the Server Page development arena than the Thick client space.

In addition, my perspective is coming from a LOB development shop as noted at the end of the post. The dynamics are a bit different there i.e. you control your environment for the most part. The open free market of the web is a slightly different animal as we are all aware.

I would like to comment on the old Linux argument. I did some consulting (help build an ASP.Net site) for a marketing firm a couple of years back. They spent some money on their clients behalf to try and find some accurate numbers for what percentage of the market does each major browser platform vendor hold. They liked MACs and were more concerned with those numbers.

The end result was that ALL the combined Linux/Unix distributions combined had less than 2% market penetration. And of the Linux crowd a large majority of them have access to a PC or MAC. The end result for the client who was having us build an e-commerce site to sell their products was to only concentrate on PC and MAC browser compatibility issues.

I do not want to start a holy war about the Linux/Unix browser story but from my experience customers who are looking for the next greatest thing to make them stand out amongst their competition really do not care a whole lot about the Linux compatibility issues. Especially when they see major fortune 500 companies totality revamping their sites with RIA products i.e. FLEX and Silverlight.

Oh, and Both FLEX and Silverlight have stories to address the Linux crowd, granted they are a version or so behind.

]]> By: Steve Sheldon http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/comment-page-1/#comment-44924 Steve Sheldon Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:26:57 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/#comment-44924 I'm afraid I don't buy the argument. I think this makes sense for what you are doing... a expert knowledge system where you have a lot of UI features. But it doesn't make sense for everyone. It's a bit like saying now that we have airplanes, the automobile is dead. Or my favorite... now that we have PDAs the desktop PC is dead.(predicted by Infoworld in 1997) They're cooperative technologies, not competitors. I’m afraid I don’t buy the argument.

I think this makes sense for what you are doing… a expert knowledge system where you have a lot of UI features.

But it doesn’t make sense for everyone.

It’s a bit like saying now that we have airplanes, the automobile is dead. Or my favorite… now that we have PDAs the desktop PC is dead.(predicted by Infoworld in 1997) They’re cooperative technologies, not competitors.

]]> By: Parag Mehta http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/comment-page-1/#comment-44913 Parag Mehta Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:31:07 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2009/03/26/ria-the-death-of-server-page-development/#comment-44913 While I agree with you Scott, I still see the RIA future that you are predicting is atleast couple of years or more away. I don't see ASP.NET stopping any time soon! Also remember Microsoft is leaving out Linux machines, which may be a business decision in my opinion but it will ensure thin clients will always be around. Flex also doesn't run seamless across all Linux Machines(need to check that, not sure!). While I agree with you Scott, I still see the RIA future that you are predicting is atleast couple of years or more away. I don’t see ASP.NET stopping any time soon!

Also remember Microsoft is leaving out Linux machines, which may be a business decision in my opinion but it will ensure thin clients will always be around. Flex also doesn’t run seamless across all Linux Machines(need to check that, not sure!).

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