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	<title>Comments on: Shut Up, Bob</title>
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	<link>http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/</link>
	<description></description>
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		<title>By: Darrel Carver</title>
		<link>http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/comment-page-2/#comment-54288</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrel Carver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 23:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/#comment-54288</guid>
		<description>Having worked in the industry for a number of years and for a number of organizations I guess I am an architect and developer who does not get agile to the level you do.

I see it as another SDLC with a great deal of good practices.  Some make sense in a organization, some do not.  For example, TDD is the hardest to sell for me as a consultant.  Most developers today are trained in the more standard waterfall methodologies.  I can usually sell automated tests, build machines, etc... But TDD is very difficult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having worked in the industry for a number of years and for a number of organizations I guess I am an architect and developer who does not get agile to the level you do.</p>
<p>I see it as another SDLC with a great deal of good practices.  Some make sense in a organization, some do not.  For example, TDD is the hardest to sell for me as a consultant.  Most developers today are trained in the more standard waterfall methodologies.  I can usually sell automated tests, build machines, etc&#8230; But TDD is very difficult.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie Flowers</title>
		<link>http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/comment-page-2/#comment-54085</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Flowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 04:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/#comment-54085</guid>
		<description>I wrote an extraordinarily fabulous comment here, then it disappeared. Oh well, screw you Bob.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote an extraordinarily fabulous comment here, then it disappeared. Oh well, screw you Bob.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie Flowers</title>
		<link>http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/comment-page-2/#comment-54084</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Flowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 04:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/#comment-54084</guid>
		<description>Dude, you need to lighten up. I love agile, and I work with a whole bunch of other good developers who love agile, and we all joke like this all the time. The only crime we commit is that it is starting to become trite, but hey, we&#039;re developers, not comedians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude, you need to lighten up. I love agile, and I work with a whole bunch of other good developers who love agile, and we all joke like this all the time. The only crime we commit is that it is starting to become trite, but hey, we&#8217;re developers, not comedians.</p>
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		<title>By: David Starr</title>
		<link>http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/comment-page-1/#comment-53889</link>
		<dc:creator>David Starr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/#comment-53889</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-53840&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Richard (Bob The Janitor) Clements&lt;/a&gt; 

I am NOT talking about one person here, is the thing. I don&#039;t understand why so many people I meet who are otherwise passionate and professional mock agile. Honestly, I don&#039;t get it.

I shouldn&#039;t have thrown in that bit about the water cooler because these people are often passionate about what they do. There are amazingly talented architects and developers who think agile is worthy of mockery.

Often, I am betting it is because of lack of understanding a feeling of being threatened. For those who actually understand the effects of agile teams and practices, but still mock it, I just don&#039;t understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-53840" rel="nofollow">@Richard (Bob The Janitor) Clements</a> </p>
<p>I am NOT talking about one person here, is the thing. I don&#8217;t understand why so many people I meet who are otherwise passionate and professional mock agile. Honestly, I don&#8217;t get it.</p>
<p>I shouldn&#8217;t have thrown in that bit about the water cooler because these people are often passionate about what they do. There are amazingly talented architects and developers who think agile is worthy of mockery.</p>
<p>Often, I am betting it is because of lack of understanding a feeling of being threatened. For those who actually understand the effects of agile teams and practices, but still mock it, I just don&#8217;t understand.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew, Friend of Bob</title>
		<link>http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/comment-page-1/#comment-53876</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew, Friend of Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/#comment-53876</guid>
		<description>Bob just shows that why it is the people that define success, not the process.  Bob is probably performs badly at Waterfall, Kanban, Lean or any other fancy word we feel like giving an SDLC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob just shows that why it is the people that define success, not the process.  Bob is probably performs badly at Waterfall, Kanban, Lean or any other fancy word we feel like giving an SDLC.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard (Bob The Janitor) Clements</title>
		<link>http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/comment-page-1/#comment-53840</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard (Bob The Janitor) Clements</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/#comment-53840</guid>
		<description>Working in an environment that has been very hostile to agile and having worked for the better part of 3 years to get us to adopt an agile methodology (finally we are doing scrum with a bit of XP), I take the exact opposite view.  

If your arguments for agile are so week that one schmuck can undermine them with a joke, then maybe you should rethink what your argument.

Dave you of all people should be able to provide good examples of why agile benefits the development process, if the CTO&#039;s suspicions are &quot;confirmed&quot; by the joke you failed in 2 ways

1: Educating your CTO about what &quot;agile&quot; is
2: Making a solid case for how agile benefit your development process</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Working in an environment that has been very hostile to agile and having worked for the better part of 3 years to get us to adopt an agile methodology (finally we are doing scrum with a bit of XP), I take the exact opposite view.  </p>
<p>If your arguments for agile are so week that one schmuck can undermine them with a joke, then maybe you should rethink what your argument.</p>
<p>Dave you of all people should be able to provide good examples of why agile benefits the development process, if the CTO&#8217;s suspicions are &#8220;confirmed&#8221; by the joke you failed in 2 ways</p>
<p>1: Educating your CTO about what &#8220;agile&#8221; is<br />
2: Making a solid case for how agile benefit your development process</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Mauer</title>
		<link>http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/comment-page-1/#comment-53838</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Mauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/#comment-53838</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-53836&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@David Starr &lt;/a&gt; Hold on, let me see what I wrote on my hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-53836" rel="nofollow">@David Starr </a> Hold on, let me see what I wrote on my hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Sergio Pereira</title>
		<link>http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/comment-page-1/#comment-53837</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergio Pereira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/#comment-53837</guid>
		<description>People like Bob gotta be the scrum of the Earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People like Bob gotta be the scrum of the Earth.</p>
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		<title>By: David Starr</title>
		<link>http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/comment-page-1/#comment-53836</link>
		<dc:creator>David Starr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/#comment-53836</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-53834&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Jason Mauer&lt;/a&gt; 

Perhaps I should have been more declarative. I do not think this kind of &quot;sardonic wit&quot; is joking, it is a defense mechanism.

Mockery is the behavior of a coward or bully, often found in the same body.

Bob isn&#039;t actually making a joke. He is being derisive and sarcastic, which is the most common retreat of the uninformed and threatened.

Hell, just watch Sarah (Bob) Palin make fun of that which she doesn&#039;t understand. Ouch! Was that out loud?

Disclaimer: I feel better about making a political statement in the  comments, not the main post :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-53834" rel="nofollow">@Jason Mauer</a> </p>
<p>Perhaps I should have been more declarative. I do not think this kind of &#8220;sardonic wit&#8221; is joking, it is a defense mechanism.</p>
<p>Mockery is the behavior of a coward or bully, often found in the same body.</p>
<p>Bob isn&#8217;t actually making a joke. He is being derisive and sarcastic, which is the most common retreat of the uninformed and threatened.</p>
<p>Hell, just watch Sarah (Bob) Palin make fun of that which she doesn&#8217;t understand. Ouch! Was that out loud?</p>
<p>Disclaimer: I feel better about making a political statement in the  comments, not the main post <img src='http://elegantcode.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jason Mauer</title>
		<link>http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/comment-page-1/#comment-53834</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Mauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elegantcode.com/2010/02/18/shut-up-bob/#comment-53834</guid>
		<description>I do get what you&#039;re getting at and I sympathize, but if these efforts to better our profession are unable to withstand someone&#039;s joke at a water cooler, we&#039;re all doomed.

Frankly I think Agile could use a dose of &quot;not so serious&quot;. An unfortunately large percentage of its practitioners have a smug, elitist air about them from thinking what they do is soooooo important. (not directing that towards you, David :) They take things way too seriously as a result, belittling others that they claim they&#039;re here to help learn. That&#039;s much more of a potential pitfall than Bob is, in my book.

I believe in software as a craft, Agile, TDD, etc. But I also believe the best way to win people over is with results. Let Bob say what he will, and then simply prove him wrong. Bringing attention to Bob by noticing him gives his wisecracks more credence than they should. People don&#039;t change because you tell them to, but they will change when they see the results. (if they&#039;re not idiots. can&#039;t do much about stupidity until genetic engineering comes around.)

Lighten up, roll with it, and evangelize Agile in today&#039;s world knowing that people have feelings, including a sense of humor.

[insert starving kids in China reference here]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do get what you&#8217;re getting at and I sympathize, but if these efforts to better our profession are unable to withstand someone&#8217;s joke at a water cooler, we&#8217;re all doomed.</p>
<p>Frankly I think Agile could use a dose of &#8220;not so serious&#8221;. An unfortunately large percentage of its practitioners have a smug, elitist air about them from thinking what they do is soooooo important. (not directing that towards you, David <img src='http://elegantcode.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  They take things way too seriously as a result, belittling others that they claim they&#8217;re here to help learn. That&#8217;s much more of a potential pitfall than Bob is, in my book.</p>
<p>I believe in software as a craft, Agile, TDD, etc. But I also believe the best way to win people over is with results. Let Bob say what he will, and then simply prove him wrong. Bringing attention to Bob by noticing him gives his wisecracks more credence than they should. People don&#8217;t change because you tell them to, but they will change when they see the results. (if they&#8217;re not idiots. can&#8217;t do much about stupidity until genetic engineering comes around.)</p>
<p>Lighten up, roll with it, and evangelize Agile in today&#8217;s world knowing that people have feelings, including a sense of humor.</p>
<p>[insert starving kids in China reference here]</p>
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