Comments on: Defining Development Experience http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> By: algorithm guy http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> By: Dale http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> By: Martin http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> By: Steve Bohlen http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> By: Siderite http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Eric Smith http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comments on: Defining Development Experience http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> By: algorithm guy http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> By: Dale http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> By: Martin http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> By: Steve Bohlen http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> By: Siderite http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Eric Smith http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> Comments on: Defining Development Experience http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> By: algorithm guy http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> By: Dale http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> By: Martin http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> By: Steve Bohlen http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> By: Siderite http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Eric Smith http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> Comments on: Defining Development Experience http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> By: algorithm guy http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> By: Dale http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> By: Martin http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> By: Steve Bohlen http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> By: Siderite http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Eric Smith http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> Comments on: Defining Development Experience http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> By: algorithm guy http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> By: Dale http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> By: Martin http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> By: Steve Bohlen http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> By: Siderite http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Eric Smith http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> Comments on: Defining Development Experience http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> By: algorithm guy http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> By: Dale http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> By: Martin http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> By: Steve Bohlen http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> By: Siderite http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Eric Smith http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> Comments on: Defining Development Experience http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> By: algorithm guy http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> By: Dale http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> By: Martin http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> By: Steve Bohlen http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> By: Siderite http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Eric Smith http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> Comments on: Defining Development Experience http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> By: algorithm guy http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> By: Dale http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> By: Martin http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> By: Steve Bohlen http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> By: Siderite http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Eric Smith http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> Comments on: Defining Development Experience http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> By: algorithm guy http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> By: Dale http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> By: Martin http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> By: Steve Bohlen http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> By: Siderite http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Eric Smith http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> Comments on: Defining Development Experience http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> By: algorithm guy http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> By: Dale http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> By: Martin http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> By: Steve Bohlen http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> By: Siderite http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Eric Smith http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> Comments on: Defining Development Experience http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=defining-development-experience Tue, 08 May 2012 09:13:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58253 Richard Cirerol Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:34:12 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58253 <a href="#comment-58249" rel="nofollow">@algorithm guy</a> I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.). That said, I wanted others' perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That's great. Thanks for your input. @algorithm guy I did not purposefully include or exclude any specific computer science or software engineering topic. I wanted to express the things I valued, while giving an opportunity to let others express theirs also. Much like the wording of the agile manifesto: while I value the technical expertise (language syntax, algorithm, etc.), I value these other things more (understanding of problem domain, architectural practices, community involvement, etc.).

That said, I wanted others’ perspectives. So, from your perspective, the depth of knowledge of algorithms is what sets a senior developer apart from a junior developer. That’s great. Thanks for your input.

]]> By: algorithm guy http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-2/#comment-58249 algorithm guy Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09:47 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58249 Why you didn't specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience? Why you didn’t specify any knowledge of algorithms as part of developer experience?

]]> By: Dale http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58102 Dale Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:57:19 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58102 When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary! Having said this, it's important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn't expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That's what google is for! Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don't. When recruiting for a senior developer, I usually value knowledge of principles and patterns higher than knowledge of any particular framework. I have only ever interviewed one candidate who had even heard of SOLID OO principles. Scary!

Having said this, it’s important that candidates can demonstrate knowledge of the technologies specific to a role or project. I will usually ask questions around .NET language features and concepts rather than specific framework classes. I wouldn’t expect anyone to know every class in the framework. That’s what google is for!

Additionally, I expect candidates to demonstrate their commitment to ongoing improvement, past and present. I often ask what features (language and IDE) were introduced in a particular version of .NET or Visual Studio. People who regularly read blogs by respected members of the community and books on topical subjects rate much higher than those that don’t.

]]> By: Martin http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58098 Martin Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58098 <a href="#comment-58081" rel="nofollow">@Chris Brandsma</a> - I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the "more practice" developers, I would still classify as junior developers. @Chris Brandsma – I completely disagree with your first point. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have been in the IT field for 5 years and have worked with tons of developers with more experience than me. Most (and I am talking 95 %) of the “more practice” developers, I would still classify as junior developers.

]]> By: Steve Bohlen http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58088 Steve Bohlen Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58088 Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development. BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW. Sounds to me like the Dreyfus Model ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition ) applied to the trade of software development.

BTW, I tend to agree with most of this FWIW.

]]> By: Siderite http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58084 Siderite Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:08:22 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58084 I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you've described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can't code, doesn't it? I wonder, is there need for anyone else above this mythical senior programmer that you’ve described? I mean, he can represent the needs of everyone and he finds the solutions without direction. That pretty much makes managers look like seniors that can’t code, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Eric Smith http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58083 Eric Smith Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:08:29 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58083 I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it's topical (we're currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted. Ultimately, though, I'm on the same page as you - *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it's *only* about what you know that's important. What's more important is knowing when you don't know enough, and having the initiative to correct that --- that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior. I enjoy engaging on this subject, I guess because right now it’s topical (we’re currently in a recruitment cycle, and have been for some time). The subject is just so subjective and what constitutes seniority is multi-faceted.

Ultimately, though, I’m on the same page as you – *what* you might know rates relatively low in my book, if only to offset the general perception that it’s *only* about what you know that’s important. What’s more important is knowing when you don’t know enough, and having the initiative to correct that — that is, IMO what seperates senior from mid-level and junior.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58081 Chris Brandsma Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:28:08 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58081 I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn't wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures. 2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc. I tend to add two things. 1. length of practice. In martial arts, the belt color used to be gained because you didn’t wash your belt. That was to show how much you worked. With music, I often hear 10,000 hours. This can be correlated to number of projects completed if you want. BTW: some of them should be failures.

2. Movement. I want people to move around a bit. Work with multiple teams, different project types, different languages, etc.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58077 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:34:16 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58077 <a href="#comment-58075" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Stevens</a> I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge <strong>in isolation</strong> of application is the parlor trick. @Kevin Stevens I agree with your point. Developers should be learning the ins and outs of their chosen platform. I was making the statement that in-depth knowledge in isolation of application is the parlor trick.

]]> By: Richard Cirerol http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/comment-page-1/#comment-58076 Richard Cirerol Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:31:43 +0000 http://elegantcode.com/2010/07/10/defining-development-experience/#comment-58076 <a href="#comment-58069" rel="nofollow">@cbp</a> I agree. That is a good point. @cbp I agree. That is a good point.

]]>